Dr Nase reaction on Yahoo group

[Brady Barrows]

Dear Brady:

It isn't necessary to provide contact info for Geoffrey Nase. I have no need to contact him. As I pointed out, my questions are rhetorical, and require no further action.

If he wants to make himself available for contact by others, his web site would be the place to do it.

I would rather not see his personal information posted in this forum.

Sincerely,
Marla

Maria,
Now that you have cleared that up, I understand.

[katwalker]

Flower,

I believe that I am immune compromised....and that led to demodex getting out of control...which has led to my having longstanding extreme rosacea (and other) symptoms.

And how did I get immune compromised? From taking antibiotics for 3 years as a teenager for mild acne. I have always believed it was the antibiotics which led to my having severe rosacea.

And what is the #1 treatment for rosacea? Antibiotics. It is a very vicious circle!

Heather

Heather,

Although I think there may be something to this relationship between antibiotics and rosacea, remember that correlation is not causation. Just because two things are related in time does not mean one caused the other (sorry, this is the scientist - the social scientist - in me popping up here). Although it may be that chronic antibiotic use caused the rosacea, it may also be that they are totally unrelated. This is the sort of thing that's impossible to sort out without large, well-controlled clinical studies. Again, I'm not saying a relationship doesn't exist - I'm just saying that there's no way to know for sure. Lots of people develop rosacea who have not had long courses of immunosuppressants or antibiotics (although this could just be that there are different subtypes of rosacea or different causes).

I'm not terribly familiar with auto-immune diseases (though I know that in general they are not well understood). Is there any evidence that prolonged antibiotic use compromises the immune system?

-Kat

[katwalker]

I checked his site and you are right, he does not post any contact info. Now that is not wise, is it?

From what I understand, Dr. Nase already gets flooded with e-mails, not counting all those posts on the yahoo boards asking for his personal attention. In contrast, I think it very wise for him not to post any other contact info lest he also want a barrage of snail mail and phone calls. Would you want hundreds of e-mails, phone calls, and letters coming to you every day asking for advice? Moreover, some people already berate him for not responding to their e-mails or posts. I can't blame him; this is not something he gets paid for. And before anyone points out that he gets sales from his book and answering such questions may be cross-promotion, authors of books do not make a lot of money. From what I've been told by book authors in other fields (okay... one field - psychology), they get maybe 2-3% of the profits.

Also, to what company are you referring? Again, I know you were just hypothetically asking, but you make it sound like it's impossible to contact him, which is not true. You just have to compete with all the other people trying to contact him.

-Kat

[katwalker]

I think it is silly to think that the Chinese are any different than Americans with regard to rosacea.

Brady,

We are talking about a population that has a vastly different lifestyle than Americans and a different genetic background than European Americans (i.e., American Caucasians of European ancestry). I (and Dr. Nase) am not saying that one is better than the other; things are just different. I don't think it's wrong to question that there may be different factors at play between Chinese and European Americans. Even within the U.S., one can see large disparities between ethnic groups with the incidence level of diseases. Hypertension is much more common in African Americans than European Americans due to genetic differences. On the other hand, heart disease is much lower in Europe than in America due to liefstyle differences (exercise being one of them). So, no, I don't think it's silly to think that Chinese rosaceans may have different things causing or exacerbating their rosacea than Americans.

And I'm not sure what disparing remarks about the Chinese you are referring to, but saying their hygenie is different than ours is not a put down but rather a reflection of them using different products than Americans. Not worse, not better, just different.

Dr. Nase is essentially just saying that we can't assume (c'mon people, assumption is not part of the scientific method!) that Chinese rosaceans are the same as European American rosaceans until comparitive studies have been conducted.

-Kat

[Brady Barrows]

I checked his site and you are right, he does not post any contact info. Now that is not wise, is it?

From what I understand, Dr. Nase already gets flooded with e-mails, not counting all those posts on the yahoo boards asking for his personal attention. In contrast, I think it very wise for him not to post any other contact info lest he also want a barrage of snail mail and phone calls. Would you want hundreds of e-mails, phone calls, and letters coming to you every day asking for advice? Moreover, some people already berate him for not responding to their e-mails or posts. I can't blame him; this is not something he gets paid for. And before anyone points out that he gets sales from his book and answering such questions may be cross-promotion, authors of books do not make a lot of money. From what I've been told by book authors in other fields (okay... one field - psychology), they get maybe 2-3% of the profits.

Also, to what company are you referring? Again, I know you were just hypothetically asking, but you make it sound like it's impossible to contact him, which is not true. You just have to compete with all the other people trying to contact him.

-Kat

kat,
Do I know about how little authors make. If you follow the thread back you will find I published the only known email address for Dr. Nase which is what he uses to post his thousands of posts at r-s. He used to publish his address at his web site, which is his company, Nase Publications, Indianapolis, IN., but does not release this address anymore possibly for the reasons you site above. His book does not have an address either. I can completely understand your point why he would not give out an email address or snail mail address on his company web site address but as Maria pointed out, that may also be detrimental to his company. None of my business, and he is available as you point out at r-s. What is weird is that he recently joined my rosaceans yahoo group.

[katwalker]

Those reactions on Dr. Nase are because of is attitude, not because he is questioning our products...

This is not specific to Walter or Dr. Nase's comments but something I have seen occurring on message boards and in e-mails lately. This latest incident has just reminded me of it. Walter and others have commented on Dr. Nase's tone/attitude in his recent comments about DS products, and I wonder where they are getting that reaction from because I'm not reading that same tone into the post. I have seen this happen several times where (not just here but at the RS group too) get upset over posts. Please be very careful about reading tone into print statements; you don't know what sort of tone the person meant when writing it. Obviously, the straight words are not something you can argue over, but some people seem to read things and see it as a personal attack (again, not specifically referring to Dr. Nase issue, though it is what reminded me of this issue). Again, it seems like several people are having emotional reactions to Dr. Nase's statements and I'm not sure why, because when I read them, I think, "Oh, that's interesting... Hmmm... don't agree with that... Well, that makes sense...". You know, I evaluate each piece of information and make separate judgements about that information, not the person relaying that information. I'm just not having a gut emotional reaction, and I wonder if it's because I'm attributing a different "tone" to his posts; I see him as not being antagonistic or a jerk but as a scientist who is presenting his opinion based on evidence in a fairly detached way (now, you can argue all day over the validity of the evidence is basing his opinions on. To be honest, I can't say that I know who's right because I'd have to get a third opinion or read the studies myself... which would just lead to confusion, what with all the medical terms... and me not reading Chinese...).

I have also been a perpetrator of this when I got angry at a friend based on an e-mail. After much back and forth, we realized that we were misreading each other's tone - things meant in jest were taken seriously, things meant to be presented in a straightford way were taken as being snide, etc.

So, I guess I would just like to urge everyone reading any post that gets a strong reaction to stop and reread it in as neutral tone as possible. Are you attributing a certain emotional tone to the writer of the post? If so, are you certain that was the tone intended? Really, I think this whole issue is why emoticons were invented... so there could be a pciture of what tone was meant. I mean, imagine the difference if I ended the above paragraph re: Dr. Nase with a as opposed to a .

-Kat

[katwalker]

Good Lord, Brady, you are quick! I'm not even finished with my rant about tone before you've answered one of my previous posts!

Perhaps I missed something (or perhaps I'm yet again a perpertrator of misreading tone... go back and read your own post, stupid Kat), but it seemed as if Dr. Nase was being accused of somehow being shady or elitist because the only available way to contact him was through e-mail.

I do find it hopeful that he's joined your group. It will allow him to share his knowledge further while at the same time maybe learning things or getting the seeds of new ideas planted in his mind.

-Kat

[Tioh]

Kat, you can believe what you like....as can I. As I said, I have always believed it was the antibiotics which led to my having severe rosacea (i.e. rosacea caused by out of control demodex)....your opinion will not change my mind. I have been researching rosacea for 30 years and in my research I have come across enough evidence that proves to me the INCREDIBLE harm that antibiotics can cause to the body.

Rosacea is not an "auto" immune disease. Auto immune and immune compromised are very different things.

In my opinion, only people who are immune compromised will have demodex that is out of control.

Heather

[flower]

heather,

i dont know whether you meant "immunocomromised" in your last post.this would refer to a clear case of either a T and/or B cell deficiency, defective phagocytosis or IgA or IgG deficiencies. these occur in cancers and aids for example.

now it is true that a person with an Immune globulin A deficiency can also be especially prone to allergies and autoimmune diseases, and sometimes there is a crossover. yet autoimmune problems are much more common in seemingly healthy people with no overt disease such as cancer or aids.

in my last post i was stating that it was my opinion that one day a link may be made between rosacea and an autoimmune response.

why? because it seems to me that many on this board have personally felt the presence of these itcy mite bites on our bodies and not only on our faces, and i remember reading somewhere months ago that a relationship had been found between the immune response in some sensitive individuals and the specific bacteria carried by the demodex mite--whereas other people seem not to respond at all to the sme bacteria.

if any one out there knows what i am tlaking about let us know how to find that info...and i will keep looking too

anyway no one has definitively said that rosacea is or is not an autoimmune disease yet...but i think it is a facinating area to research.

[flower]

as i was looking (unsuccessfully) for that article i found these on the following page:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... &DB=PubMed

articles 2, 5 and 12 are particularly interesting...maybe dr nase should read them??

[Brady Barrows]

Good Lord, Brady, you are quick! I'm not even finished with my rant about tone before you've answered one of my previous posts!

Perhaps I missed something (or perhaps I'm yet again a perpertrator of misreading tone... go back and read your own post, stupid Kat), but it seemed as if Dr. Nase was being accused of somehow being shady or elitist because the only available way to contact him was through e-mail.

I do find it hopeful that he's joined your group. It will allow him to share his knowledge further while at the same time maybe learning things or getting the seeds of new ideas planted in his mind.

-Kat

Kat,
His joining my rosaceans yahoo group and his question about the Z cream didn't even make a ripple in the group. That is so odd since no one even noticed. So much for his question and popularity. I find it so odd that there isn't one remark about it. Walter says Dr. Nase needs to join this group or ask DS to get an answer to his questions. So far no one really cares much so I am not in a big hurry to respond. He did respond that he would 'order a jar of the Z cream in a month.' We shall see if anything comes of this.