Hi,
Just a quick history about me:
I'm 29, had no issues with my skin until the late 2010 and my trip to HK. Mid 2011, the skin slowly started changing in color, on my nose and the thin strip of skin (1-2cm wide) around it on the cheeks. It started looking dried up, the color changed, and my pores slowly enlarged. I tried sorting it out through diet, even though I was already on a pretty clean diet since going to the gym 3-4 times a week. The condition slowly worsened as I started getting pin-sized red dots on the reddened places. Went to see the derm - got prescribed with doxy for six weeks and differin, of which I tried doxy, but no help. Went to see another derm, got diagnosed with rosacea and she prescribed 0.75 metrogel. The diagnosis just didn't feel right, so went to my GP and asked for antifungal pills for two weeks (thinking I had seb. dermatitis) due to scaly skin on my cheeks - also no improvement.
Continued researching, read numerous papers on demodex, so went back again and asked for Ivermecetin (of which I had several rounds) and Eurax cream. This seemed to help a bit, but still far off from the condition my skin looked before. After that, I stumbled on several papers that demodex could be treated with oral Metro, so I started taking 3x200 mg a day for 3 weeks. This helped a bit, but only temporarily.
I continued the search and contacted one of the pharmacies to make me a ointment of 10% Sulfacetamide 5% Sulfur, which I still use, and this seemes beneficial as it reduces the redness a bit. Stumbling on another paper, I made them do another ointment containing 2% Sodium Dodecylbenzene Sulfonate. This also seemed to reduce redness and issues with the pimples, but since it was mixed in Vaseline, it clogged up my pores, so I discontinued.
In June this year, I finally decided to order the ZZ cream, and since I started using it there has been gradual improvement and the crawling/itchy feeling on my face during the night was slowly getting weaker. However, 4 weeks ago, I started using a mixture of tea tree oil/tamanu oil/seabuckthorn oil (during the morning, after which, when the oil dried I would put a manuka honey cream on top) and manuka oil/seabuckthorn oil during the afternoon, and rub tea tree oil into my scalp after I would wash my hair. Since then the crawling feeling came back with full sway. It starts on the central part of my face and during the day it moves towards my neck and ears, which would possibly mean that the demodex are trying to get as far as they can from the treated areas.
Now, the questions that I have are:
1. As I've been using the ZZ cream for close to 16 weeks (and I understand that it should be used for at least 6 months), why am I having the feeling of crawling on my face that is stronger then before I started treating.
2. With regards to the pores and size (since they had only enlarged in the last year or so), can I expect that they will shrink as the time passes by. Also, should the blackheads be extracted/removed so the zz cream/tto/manuka oil can penetrate easier into the pores, and would you (Walter) recomend using retinol to clean the pores?
Thanks
Question for Walter, and the others
Moderators: Julia, Walter, Administrator
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
Hello
can be a kind of allergic reaction, those oils are no so innocent as people think.
I dont believe that demodex mites can migrate while treating, I believe you have itch on those new places but not because of mite migration.
Why many people believe the mites are migrating is the following.
It is not that because one has no problems in some skin zones that there are no mites, when start treating,
the ointment also comes to other places then treated by means of your hands, pillows or whatever, this is enough
to start killing them on those untreated places which can show in new infections and itch on the zones which had no problems before, this is only temporarily though.
What I don't understand is that you use so many stuff in addition of the Zhongzhou ointment, the ointment
will do the job perfectly alone with no other help, you just need to be a bit patient.
Regarding the black heads, in my opinion, it is best to remove them when possible, don't start to overdo though,
only when it goes easy.
I have no experience with Retinol so I can not tell you but I would use nothing else besides the Ointment till the problem is gone.
Walter
Well, from your story above I can only conclude that the itch you experience now is because of the oils you use,1. As I've been using the ZZ cream for close to 16 weeks (and I understand that it should be used for at least 6 months), why am I having the feeling of crawling on my face that is stronger then before I started treating.
can be a kind of allergic reaction, those oils are no so innocent as people think.
I dont believe that demodex mites can migrate while treating, I believe you have itch on those new places but not because of mite migration.
Why many people believe the mites are migrating is the following.
It is not that because one has no problems in some skin zones that there are no mites, when start treating,
the ointment also comes to other places then treated by means of your hands, pillows or whatever, this is enough
to start killing them on those untreated places which can show in new infections and itch on the zones which had no problems before, this is only temporarily though.
What I don't understand is that you use so many stuff in addition of the Zhongzhou ointment, the ointment
will do the job perfectly alone with no other help, you just need to be a bit patient.
Most of the time, the pores indeed shrink in time but that is something you will need to wait and see for.2. With regards to the pores and size (since they had only enlarged in the last year or so), can I expect that they will shrink as the time passes by. Also, should the blackheads be extracted/removed so the zz cream/tto/manuka oil can penetrate easier into the pores, and would you (Walter) recomend using retinol to clean the pores?
Regarding the black heads, in my opinion, it is best to remove them when possible, don't start to overdo though,
only when it goes easy.
I have no experience with Retinol so I can not tell you but I would use nothing else besides the Ointment till the problem is gone.
Walter
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
I'm sure you can understand yourself that most if not all that have this condition, patience would not be our strong suit. Therefore, using several methods of eradication seemed/seems as a logical approach. Unfortunately, not everything works for all as I have witnessed. The ZZ cream seems as an effective and non evasive method, however, the only drawback is the time. 6 months mark is only a relative number depending on the infection and numbers of demodex mites. Don't get me wrong, I'm far from complaining, I was just trying to rationalize why the itching/crawling intensified considering I have been using the cream for close to 5 months now.
As for the pores on the nose and the color - the funny thing is that I don't feel any itching on the nose, rather on the cheeks around it. The reason for this could be that the pores are to large to feel any itching or direct demodex movement, unlike the cheeks where my pores are practically non-existent, but they itch all the time.
In your case, once the demodex were eradicated did you experience shrinking of the pores? The reason I'm asking is because my pores were never this large. That only started a year or so ago.
Thanks
As for the pores on the nose and the color - the funny thing is that I don't feel any itching on the nose, rather on the cheeks around it. The reason for this could be that the pores are to large to feel any itching or direct demodex movement, unlike the cheeks where my pores are practically non-existent, but they itch all the time.
In your case, once the demodex were eradicated did you experience shrinking of the pores? The reason I'm asking is because my pores were never this large. That only started a year or so ago.
Thanks
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
Yes, I understand
My pores are more or less back to normal, not perfect but ok
Walter
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
My pores are more or less back to normal, not perfect but ok
Walter
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
It normal for hard like grains of sebum to still be getting stuck in my cheek pores? I have been using the products since march and while i dont have itching or red bumps anymore I still have seborrheic dermatitis and this hard solidified stuff that gets stuck in my huge pores. My pores have not diminished in size at all. My redness has not been alleviated either..any ideas????
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
Hi Walter,
Its now close to 7 months of using the ZZ cream but I still feel itching and crawling every day. My skin condition has improved, as I mention already, but the pores on my nose are clogged. They appear somewhat smaller then before, but there is a lot of them and it looks a mess.
I think the part of the reason they're getting clogged is because of the ZZ cream. Therefore I decided to switch to Xin f. cream with metro, and use Retin A and salicylic acid (wash) during the day to try and clean them out. No point putting on the ZZ and try to kill the mites if the cream cannot get inside the pore.
My question is - whats your experience with the Xin cream, since many of us use only the ZZ cream.
Thanks
Its now close to 7 months of using the ZZ cream but I still feel itching and crawling every day. My skin condition has improved, as I mention already, but the pores on my nose are clogged. They appear somewhat smaller then before, but there is a lot of them and it looks a mess.
I think the part of the reason they're getting clogged is because of the ZZ cream. Therefore I decided to switch to Xin f. cream with metro, and use Retin A and salicylic acid (wash) during the day to try and clean them out. No point putting on the ZZ and try to kill the mites if the cream cannot get inside the pore.
My question is - whats your experience with the Xin cream, since many of us use only the ZZ cream.
Thanks
Re: Question for Walter, and the others
No itching or red bumps anymore is already a good achievement isn't it?It normal for hard like grains of sebum to still be getting stuck in my cheek pores? I have been using the products since march and while i dont have itching or red bumps anymore I still have seborrheic dermatitis and this hard solidified stuff that gets stuck in my huge pores. My pores have not diminished in size at all. My redness has not been alleviated either..any ideas???
Those grains of sebum can be a genetic problem making too much sebum but you should be able to
push those out without getting infections now, those grains come not so easily out by themselves.
If you do this regularly they should become less and less, don't overdo though, they should come out quite easily
I have this problem myself(too much sebum) but I can control this easily now.
The itch and crawling you feel is actually because a kind of allergic reaction towards those mites,I still feel itching and crawling every day
your immune system still reacts on them even most will be gone now after 7 months, this should go away in time,
what you can do is taking an an anti allergic medicine for a while.
This is the same reason that it can take so long time for rosacea sufferers for the redness to subside,
the immune system needs to stop reacting after the mites are gone, this can take time and is different for every person.
No, the ZZ cream doesn't clog the pores, this comes from the insideI think the part of the reason they're getting clogged is because of the ZZ cream
The base from the ZZ cream formula is specially designed to work as deep as possibly into the pores, this creamNo point putting on the ZZ and try to kill the mites if the cream cannot get inside the pore.
is not just a simple mix from ingredients what some people think, there is already 40 years ongoing research and improvement going on with the ZZ cream, even now they still working on minor adjustments to let it work even better.
One can only kill the adults, the eggs and nymphs are protected by a seal and can not be killed with nothing so
you need to kill them when they are adult, close to the surface or when they crawl out of the skin.
You can try, the Fumanling also works good but we have mostly the best results with the ZZ cream, it also depends from person to person and the kind of skin problems/skin type.Therefore I decided to switch to Xin f. cream with metro, and use Retin A and salicylic acid (wash) during the day to try and clean them out.
If the Fumanling is good for you you really need to try, can not tell just like this,whats your experience with the Xin cream, since many of us use only the ZZ cream
some people swear by the Fumanling, others by the ZZ cream.
Walter