undeniable observations : 20 months and not cured

[Walter]

I am in holyday for the moment, will have a look when I am back,
The reason for the acne with teenagers is because when their hormone balance becomes upset, their glands start to produce more sebum and because of that creating the perfect breading environment for the mites with infections as result, it is not because teenagers produce to much sebum they should have acne.

Walter

[SteveInAustin]

Steve, I have also tried alot of what you mentioned...meditation, fasting, special diets, vitamins, collodial silver, herbs (sesamin actually works reallg well against acne, but kills your libido and sexual performance, as does beta-sitosterol)....how has your acne fared with an anti-mite treatment (which I assume you are undertaking)?

Sorry I didn't answer sooner...

My acne cleared up more or less completely with the ZZ + XFML treatment. I found that liquid benzoyl peroxide also did a good job, but ZZ + XFML was better.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[SteveInAustin]

Also, steve, see what this researcher says about the immune system and demodex (and its possible implications in rosacea, acne, and hairloss):

http://pestalert.ifas.ufl.edu/acne.htm

also what are your thoughts on acne/rosacea worsening with stress and/or steroid usage?

I think the article isn't mentioning some things. Like the article says that demodex outbreaks occur in young animals where (hypothetically) the immune system isn't developed. And that's what you saw and why you're calling my attention to the article.

Problem is, if all "young animals" have poor immune systems, then why don't all young animals also get the mange? Therefore, the *assumption* that it's a weak immune system may not be correct. I stand by my hypothesis, because it makes more sense. That is, this is all due to a blind spot in our DNA. That may be related to our immune systems, particularly the parts of our DNA that controls the parts of the immune system that falls outside of any interaction with our blood (ie, skin). But it's this blind spot in our DNA that ultimately leads to the decrease in our abilities to deal with the mites / bacteria. It's too simplistic just saying that our immune systems are weak. They're weak because of something about our genetic coding. That's why all young animals don't get the mange, even though all young animals do have mites.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[SteveInAustin]

I've used aloe vera lotion the past 2 weeks or so and have noticed my facial redness has went down probably 50%. I just don't see why a maintenance dose is required..and for how long does the maintenance supposed to happen? If it's for the rest of your life then this is definately no cure in my eyes. I just want a clear face and I know the pads caused my face to be this way because for the 20 years before taking the stridex pads my face was nice and clear with very minimal zits.

Yes, it's true that you'll almost certainly need to go on the maintenance dosage pretty much forever, or until your body changes. But the maintenance dosage really lasts me about 6 weeks per ZZ container. So it's like about US $20-25 per month. Not bad. Works better than anything else. Until we get a cure, it's the next best thing. For me anyway.

I don't think anyone's saying this is a cure.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[pears103]

If you look on the demodex site it says that this is a fda approved cure. i've read over the whole website and it does say this. so...i don't know where your coming from. if the creams eliminate the mites then our immune system would be able to return to enough strength to fight off the mites which would make us go back to our normal lifes which would make this a cure.

[sandy]

Steve, your theory raises 2 questions for me. Firstly, if the problem is a weakness in DNA, then howcome many people are fine for years then suddenly there's a problem? Secondly, how come so many teenagers suffer from acne? do you think they all have a DNA weakness? As for dogs, as far as I am aware very many adolescent dogs suffer from mange.

[SteveInAustin]

If you look on the demodex site it says that this is a fda approved cure. i've read over the whole website and it does say this. so...i don't know where your coming from. if the creams eliminate the mites then our immune system would be able to return to enough strength to fight off the mites which would make us go back to our normal lifes which would make this a cure.

I had to look again at the web site. It has been a long time since I even looked at it. Yeah, I see the word, "cure," being used quite a bit. If I was Walter, I'd make sure to define what that word means in this context. Because even though the ZZ + XFML products may kill all or most of the demodex mites, they do tend to come back. So if it's a cure, it's a temporary one. And I think most people define the word, "cure," to mean that it's permanent. So I agree, that wording needs to be changed. Though, if you pull up the forum here, you won't have to look very long before you realize what the reality of the situation is.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[SteveInAustin]

Steve, your theory raises 2 questions for me. Firstly, if the problem is a weakness in DNA, then howcome many people are fine for years then suddenly there's a problem? Secondly, how come so many teenagers suffer from acne? do you think they all have a DNA weakness? As for dogs, as far as I am aware very many adolescent dogs suffer from mange.

I thought I already mentioned that part? Maybe it was in a different thread.

Okay, DNA is composed of genes. Genes cause different things to happen in your body at different times (of the day, of the year, or over your entire life). They control just about everything about what happens in your body. When a body gets to be a certain age, gene codes start to increase sex hormone production in the body. That brings on puberty. This increase in sex hormones increases oil production on the skin. Because of the increased oil production, the acne bacteria thrive, and so teenagers will be much more likely than any other segment of the population to get acne. After a while of this, your genes start issuing commands to decrease sex hormone production. At that point you're an adult biologically speaking. Oil production decreases. People usually stop having acne at this point. They still have acne bacteria all over their faces, but the decrease in oil production allows their body to deal with the acne infection well.

So what about adult acne? Well, my hypothesis is that people who get adult acne have a gene or a group of genes that are not functioning correctly. Since genes can turn "on" at any time, that might explain why an adult who never had acne before might have acne now. That gene could switch "off" at some point later on just as easily. Or it could be the case where we normally have some genes that are turned "on", but people with acne have their genes "off". Or some genes could be missing. Or a mixture of all of the above.

How this works for acne is a mystery to me. Scientists will need to analyze it. And so until then we're all in the dark.

But I can say we can be reasonably certain that this is all due to our genetic coding. Nothing else explains why most people don't get adult acne, but some people do. What's different about us? We can't blame our diets. We can't blame toxins in food, water, or the environment. We can't blame a lack of exercise. All of these lifestyle and environmental elements are shared by people who don't get adult acne. So the only thing remaining is our DNA. It's deductive reasoning.

I wouldn't call it a DNA "weakness" exactly. That's an over-simplification. It's just that our DNA is different in this regard.

And yes, many dogs do suffer from mange. But they're still a minority. So what's different about them compared with other dogs? They share the same diet, upbringing, environment, etc. The only thing that's different is their DNA.

Mind you, this is all good and well to know that there is a genetic cause for acne. How does that help us? It doesn't. Not yet anyway. However, I predict that many years from now we'll hear that someone has located the gene or genes that control acne. Then 10-20 years after that they might have a medicine that specifically targets those genes. You'll be able to take a pill that has absolutely no side-effects and only causes your acne to go away. That would be awesome. But that's decades away by my estimation.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[pears103]

If people needed to take this the rest of their lives then I don't think anyone would want to buy this product because it would be just like all the other treatments..being just that...just a treatment. It doesn't make any sense. If your body was able to fight off these mites for let's say the 1st 20 years of your life..if you eliminated enough mites..then your body should be able to fight them off once again and for good unless something triggers these mites to thrive as they did with me using stridex pads.

[crzyakta]

i think the gene defect is not with the immune system, but rather on how the body and mind handle stress...specifically the hormones the liver produces

when these are out of wack (esp T to DHT conversion, but on a lesser scale, adrenalin and epineperhine production), it lends a hand to opportunisitic infections

Also, Steve or Walter would it be okay to use the ZZ cream twice a day (after washing with SBT soap of course) instead of using ZZ+XFML?

thanks

[Walter]

Steve or Walter would it be okay to use the ZZ cream twice a day (after washing with SBT soap of course) instead of using ZZ+XFML?

Yes, if your skin can handle it, even better

Walter

[crzyakta]

Walter, combined with the sea buckthorn oil soap, its been fantastic...and its only been 2 weeks

Also, Walter, search for Demodicosis on this site, its VERY interesting:

http://www.hairsite5.com/m461zo20/_disc461/00000048.htm

[SteveInAustin]

If people needed to take this the rest of their lives then I don't think anyone would want to buy this product because it would be just like all the other treatments..being just that...just a treatment. It doesn't make any sense. If your body was able to fight off these mites for let's say the 1st 20 years of your life..if you eliminated enough mites..then your body should be able to fight them off once again and for good unless something triggers these mites to thrive as they did with me using stridex pads.

Yes, that's fine in theory. But until we have a product that does indeed cure, we have to make choices amongst the products that just treat the symptoms. Such is life. The same problem exists all over the spectrum of medicine today. We'd like to have a cure, but until then I'll take whatever gets me through the day. For me that's ZZ cream. I also liked liquid benzoyl peroxide (Carley's), but ZZ was better for me. Your mileage may vary.

And you're not understanding the situation I think. You still think your body is the same as it was when you were 8 years old, or 15, or 20. You think your mites and your acne bacteria is what has changed, but your body is the same as always. Nope. Your body has changed in many obvious ways since you were those ages. But in a non-obvious way it has changed in the way it deals with mites and the acne bacteria. That's why you have acne now and why you didn't then. The root cause isn't that you picked up a lot more mites and acne bacteria from somewhere else. The root cause is that your body changed, and now it can no longer deal with the mites and acne bacteria that are present. What is it exactly that changed? I don't know. It could be a number of things. Genes switching on and off as I discussed, yes. Also stress and diet might be different, but I doubt that's the cause. You could have a disease of some sort which you didn't have when you were younger (AIDS, cancer, thyroid problems, pituitary gland problems, diabetes, etc.). See a doctor and get thorough checkup and blood-workup including a toxin screen and pathogen screen. Rule out that first.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[SteveInAustin]

i think the gene defect is not with the immune system, but rather on how the body and mind handle stress...specifically the hormones the liver produces

when these are out of wack (esp T to DHT conversion, but on a lesser scale, adrenalin and epineperhine production), it lends a hand to opportunisitic infections

Also, Steve or Walter would it be okay to use the ZZ cream twice a day (after washing with SBT soap of course) instead of using ZZ+XFML?

thanks

I agree, it doesn't have to be limited to the body's defense mechanisms. It could also be due in part or in whole to hormones and the body's sensitivity to stress and other factors. So many things are linked to other things. So that's a good observation you made. I do think a DNA comparison would detect these genes regardless of their function. We'd then realize after gene analysis what's really going on. I'm non-dogmatic about that root cause. I'm not attached to any hypothetical cause. It could surprise us all.

As for using ZZ twice a day, I don't recommend it. Like Walter says, "if your skin can tolerate it." With most people, it's way too drying to use twice a day. It would cause your skin to dry out and get peely and flakey. Plus, you can usually see it on your face during the day. So that's why most people use XFML during the day (it's invisible and acts like a moisturizer). You can use water along with ZZ to spread ZZ on your face more finely, and then it can be invisible. You could then let your face dry and use a dry towel to just lightly brush off any powder residue you see. That way it will be totally invisible. I've heard of some people doing that, but I never tried it.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[crzyakta]

steve, if you get a chance come over to regrowth.com 's messageboards, ALOT about demodex is going on there, also read the link to the mann patent i posted, not sure if you suffer from hairloss or not, but this is VERY interesting to say the least

also on a side note, i have a feeling that the amount of DHT receptors (and their senstivity) on certain tissues determine the amount of 'food' the mites will have to feed on