Dr Nase reaction on Yahoo group

[Brady Barrows]

I responded to the allegations at this post >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ro ... ssage/3319

Brady Barrows
rosaceans yahoo group owner

Mr. Barrows, I appreciate your prompt attention and objective approach in responding to a post by Geoffrey Nase, Ph.D.

Moreover, I offer a quote from the introductory message that I received after signing up for the Yahoo! rosacea support group regarding etiquette:

" . . . from Rotary International, and is called
the 4 way test of the things we think, say or do.

1) Is it the truth ?
2) Is it fair to all concerned ?
3) Will it build goodwill and better friendships ?
4) Will it be beneficial to all concerned ?
. . . "

Among others who posted on the subject, Geoffrey Nase failed to adhere to the recommended etiquette. The hard way to find out what the rules are is to break them.

Sincerely,
Marla

Maria,

Thanks for your kind remarks.

I have been watching to see if Dr. Nase respond's to katwalker's question but so far I haven't seen a response. Since you are a member of r-s you could point out the above rules of etiquette and ask also. I am not a member of r-s.

[katwalker]

Okay, it's really only been a few days, and Dr. Nase has only posted a few comments (to anyone) during that time, so I'm still hopeful that he will post a reply on his own. Whatever his opinion, I'm really interested in knowing why he has it. He just usually gives a reason, and this time he didn't.

That being said... if more people post about this topic, particularly requesting to know an answer, he might be more likely to reply.

Also a side note... someone recently posted their experience with Stromectol (oral anti-fungal; see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ro ... sage/70432 ), and his skin side effects seemed very similar to my current ones with the xx cream and Fumanling. Not saying Stromectol does the same thing (it's actually supposed to kill off excess yeast that might cause seb derm), but it just amused me to see that other things that can be helpful can cause horrible break out and dry skin before producing the good results.

[Walter]

Katwalker posted

Also a side note... someone recently posted their experience with Stromectol (oral anti-fungal; see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ro ... sage/70432 ), and his skin side effects seemed very similar to my current ones with the xx cream and Fumanling. Not saying Stromectol does the same thing (it's actually supposed to kill off excess yeast that might cause seb derm), but it just amused me to see that other things that can be helpful can cause horrible break out and dry skin before producing the good results.

Stromectol is not an anti fungal, it is a medicine developed against river blindness, a parasite which lay's his eggs in the eyes, causing blindness, it kills the parasites by destroying there nerve system.
It is widely used now against parasites in life stock, pets etc.
also one of the best medicines against scabies but a bit dangerous and can have site effects, some pets and/or life stocks can die from it.
I red an article once on the internet, can not remember where, but it was about a test the did with this drug in Africa on a wide scale in an effort to eliminate this parasite but they had to stop it
because to dangerous, some people died and they could not eliminate the parasite anyway.
Stromectol doesn't suppose to pass the brain barrier but......................................
It will do nothing against demodex mites, only kill some adults and after a couple of day's without itch it will be even worse, even with stromectol you can not reach them all and once again,
not the eggs and nymphs, I took it myself so I know, I took 5 times in a row every other 3 day's, the maximum dose, with no help at all, yes, for some day's and then worse.
I wonder why people on that forum want to try this?
against what?
taking a risk for nothing?
If they would have scabies ore other parasite I would say yes, but for what?
They have to kill pets with demodex mites sometimes, if stromectol would eliminate them, why do they need to kill them?
it only works a bit and for a short time.
I can not say this many times enough, only a continious treatment for a longer time will give results, I gues this is one more reason they always conclude demodex mites or not the reason, they never treat for a long time and if they would, with what are they going to do it?

Walter

[Brady Barrows]

Katwalker posted

Also a side note... someone recently posted their experience with Stromectol (oral anti-fungal; see http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ro ... sage/70432 ), and his skin side effects seemed very similar to my current ones with the xx cream and Fumanling. Not saying Stromectol does the same thing (it's actually supposed to kill off excess yeast that might cause seb derm), but it just amused me to see that other things that can be helpful can cause horrible break out and dry skin before producing the good results.

Stromectol is not an anti fungal, it is a medicine developed against river blindness, a parasite which lay's his eggs in the eyes, causing blindness, it kills the parasites by destroying there nerve system.
It is widely used now against parasites in life stock, pets etc.
also one of the best medicines against scabies but a bit dangerous and can have site effects, some pets and/or life stocks can die from it.
I red an article once on the internet, can not remember where, but it was about a test the did with this drug in Africa on a wide scale in an effort to eliminate this parasite but they had to stop it
because to dangerous, some people died and they could not eliminate the parasite anyway.
Stromectol doesn't suppose to pass the brain barrier but......................................
It will do nothing against demodex mites, only kill some adults and after a couple of day's without itch it will be even worse, even with stromectol you can not reach them all and once again,
not the eggs and nymphs, I took it myself so I know, I took 5 times in a row every other 3 day's, the maximum dose, with no help at all, yes, for some day's and then worse.
I wonder why people on that forum want to try this?
against what?
taking a risk for nothing?
If they would have scabies ore other parasite I would say yes, but for what?
They have to kill pets with demodex mites sometimes, if stromectol would eliminate them, why do they need to kill them?
it only works a bit and for a short time.
I can not say this many times enough, only a continious treatment for a longer time will give results, I gues this is one more reason they always conclude demodex mites or not the reason, they never treat for a long time and if they would, with what are they going to do it?

Walter

Walter,

I have written an editorial on Stromectol (Ivermectin) at this url >

http://www.rosaceans.com/html/ivermectin.html

[Walter]

If ivermectin (stromectol) helps some people with rosacea, it once more, confirms the mite theory because the only thing Ivermectin can do is killing parasites.
But then again, it will be only temporarily, of course, if you keep on taking Ivermectin for a long time it will also be able to eliminate demodex mites, but you will need to take for a really long time, I would not dare to do that.

Walter

[SteveInAustin]

You know Walter, all of the doubt would go away with a properly controlled scientific experiment which is then published in a leading US medical journal.

I'd recommend getting a volunteer science consultant. That would be somebody who can setup a proper clinical trial, explain the methods you're to use, and edit your research paper prior to submission to a major medical journal. If I recall correctly, the US National Institutes of Health has a branch devoted to Alternative and Complementary medicine which I believe offers assistance to people looking to prove the effectiveness of their products. I could be wrong.

The idea is that unless you have peer reviewed scientific research showing that your products are getting results, you can not expect to be taken seriously by scientists. Period. All of the results you have are anecdotal. That doesn't count in the world of science.

I'm just telling you how it is and what you could do to improve your situation. I'm not making any negative judgements on your products. You know my results with your products. They've been excellent! Better than anything I've used before for acne. I'm nearly 100% clear now and it's staying like that well over a year after starting to use the products.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[Marla]

You know Walter, all of the doubt would go away with a properly controlled scientific experiment which is then published in a leading US medical journal.

Okay, Steve, I told Walter where to go.

Maybe with luck he can get a trial started.

It's time to get down and dirty about documenting these products because they work. They really do work.

--Marla

[Brady Barrows]

You know Walter, all of the doubt would go away with a properly controlled scientific experiment which is then published in a leading US medical journal.

I'd recommend getting a volunteer science consultant. That would be somebody who can setup a proper clinical trial, explain the methods you're to use, and edit your research paper prior to submission to a major medical journal. If I recall correctly, the US National Institutes of Health has a branch devoted to Alternative and Complementary medicine which I believe offers assistance to people looking to prove the effectiveness of their products. I could be wrong.

The idea is that unless you have peer reviewed scientific research showing that your products are getting results, you can not expect to be taken seriously by scientists. Period. All of the results you have are anecdotal. That doesn't count in the world of science.

I'm just telling you how it is and what you could do to improve your situation. I'm not making any negative judgements on your products. You know my results with your products. They've been excellent! Better than anything I've used before for acne. I'm nearly 100% clear now and it's staying like that well over a year after starting to use the products.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

Steve,
I have formed a non profit organization for rosacea >

http://www.irosacea.org

We are currently in the infant stage of development applying for 501 (c) (3) approval from the USA IRS. Once achieved, and if donations come in hopefully the RRDi can do just that. The board of directors would have to be persuaded do such clinical trials but hopefully it will.

By the way, I grew up in Killeen, Texas until I was 16. Hook'em horns.

[SteveInAustin]

Brady,

Oh wow, a fellow Texan! Yep, I've been to Killeen several times while traveling up to Dallas on I-35. It's a small world.

I think you've got the right idea. Your idea appears to be to go in with full force trying to get to the bottom of this problem. You're using the scientific method and hopefully will be employing or finding volunteer scientists from the biological and medical fields to assist you. Only through science can we really find the answers. And of course you're going to need to conduct clinical trials of your own and write research papers. It's going to be a lot of fun for you and should be very rewarding. Good deal.

One thing I keep hearing from "alternative" medicine proponents is that it would cost millions of dollars to perform a clinical trial of their own, so that's why they don't do them. That's nonsense. They're regurgitating a popular myth amongst alternative meds people that pharmacies "control" science, since they tend to spend billions of dollars on R&D. That's bogus. A clinical trial can be done virtually for free. You can even have your patients buy their own products and just report back to you on their progress. You have to make sure they agree to and stick with some methodological protocol, that's all. And the US NIH provides funding in some cases for clinical trials, not to mention providing consultants for free who can talk with you about your methods and how to draft your white papers and submit them to medical journals. It doesn't have to cost a lot. But it would go more smoothly if someone on your staff was a credible scientist, especially in the biological or medical sciences. Such a person would be able to design a properly controlled scientific experiment, make meaning of the results, and write up a scientifically acceptable research paper for submission to a medical journal.

Anyway, the reason it costs billions of dollars for pharmacies to make a drug is not because of clinical trials but because of their research and development. They have to employ a 6-figure salaried staff of hundreds of workers full-time. And they have to design manufacturing facilities and so forth. That's 99.99% of their cost. The clinical trials are going to be a very small cost to them, and it's often taken care of by the government, so it's mostly free to them. For alternative meds people who have no real R&D costs, they have no excuse for not doing clinical trials in my opinion. It raises the question of whether they truly believe their product will be shown to work or not. Maybe they don't want to find out that their stuff is really just a placebo?

Keep us posted on your progress.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[Walter]

We are for sure not afraid to do clinical trials according scientific methods but everything on his time, we can not do everything at once, in fact, we will be very happy if this can be done as soon as possible, actually, at this moment, some people in the Antwerp university in Belgium are trying to find a future dermatologist who wants to do his final work before graduating (don't know how to say in English but I am sure you understand) about demodex mites and there negative impact on the skin, this will tell everything in a scientific way, and I can assure everybody, if this would turn out negative, which I am sure it will not, but just suppose, we will stop selling our products, we believe in it because of the results we have, don't forget that we before starting this website send free treatments to people for one year to see the results first, only after one year we decided to start with it because the results where very positive, we helped already so much people that we only become more and more convinced that we are on the right track, our goal is to officially license the Zhongzhou ointment so we can start to sell locally in Europe and USA.

Walter

[Brady Barrows]

Brady,

Oh wow, a fellow Texan! Yep, I've been to Killeen several times while traveling up to Dallas on I-35. It's a small world.

I think you've got the right idea. Your idea appears to be to go in with full force trying to get to the bottom of this problem. You're using the scientific method and hopefully will be employing or finding volunteer scientists from the biological and medical fields to assist you. Only through science can we really find the answers. And of course you're going to need to conduct clinical trials of your own and write research papers. It's going to be a lot of fun for you and should be very rewarding. Good deal.

One thing I keep hearing from "alternative" medicine proponents is that it would cost millions of dollars to perform a clinical trial of their own, so that's why they don't do them. That's nonsense. They're regurgitating a popular myth amongst alternative meds people that pharmacies "control" science, since they tend to spend billions of dollars on R&D. That's bogus. A clinical trial can be done virtually for free. You can even have your patients buy their own products and just report back to you on their progress. You have to make sure they agree to and stick with some methodological protocol, that's all. And the US NIH provides funding in some cases for clinical trials, not to mention providing consultants for free who can talk with you about your methods and how to draft your white papers and submit them to medical journals. It doesn't have to cost a lot. But it would go more smoothly if someone on your staff was a credible scientist, especially in the biological or medical sciences. Such a person would be able to design a properly controlled scientific experiment, make meaning of the results, and write up a scientifically acceptable research paper for submission to a medical journal.

Anyway, the reason it costs billions of dollars for pharmacies to make a drug is not because of clinical trials but because of their research and development. They have to employ a 6-figure salaried staff of hundreds of workers full-time. And they have to design manufacturing facilities and so forth. That's 99.99% of their cost. The clinical trials are going to be a very small cost to them, and it's often taken care of by the government, so it's mostly free to them. For alternative meds people who have no real R&D costs, they have no excuse for not doing clinical trials in my opinion. It raises the question of whether they truly believe their product will be shown to work or not. Maybe they don't want to find out that their stuff is really just a placebo?

Keep us posted on your progress.

Steve
Austin, Texas USA

Steve,

We sure could use you as a volunteer rosacean for the RRDi. Once we receive 501 (c) (3) approval I am confident enough rosaceans will want an alternative non profit that is not so heavily entrenched with the Amercian Medical Association and the Western pharmaceutical companies that are run by Americans, since three of the exisiting rosacea non profit organizations are apparently pro AMA all the way. Please join the RRDi as a member. http://www.irosacea.org click on JOIN and fill out the form. I can suggest to the board of directors that you be put in charge of clinical trial studies (if you volunteer). If you don't have the time, I understand, and will just be happy you joined.

[SteveInAustin]

Steve,

We sure could use you as a volunteer rosacean for the RRDi. Once we receive 501 (c) (3) approval I am confident enough rosaceans will want an alternative non profit that is not so heavily entrenched with the Amercian Medical Association and the Western pharmaceutical companies that are run by Americans, since three of the exisiting rosacea non profit organizations are apparently pro AMA all the way. Please join the RRDi as a member. http://www.irosacea.org click on JOIN and fill out the form. I can suggest to the board of directors that you be put in charge of clinical trial studies (if you volunteer). If you don't have the time, I understand, and will just be happy you joined.

Hi Brady,

Yes, I do have very little free time these days especially. I'm also the wrong person for the job. You're going to need an experienced scientist. I'm an engineer (electrical). You'll want to get someone who has a track record of published works in peer reviewed, scientific journals. And again, I stress the importance for someone who's actually in the biological or medical sciences, especially a dermatology specialist. You can get away with doing trials without a qualified scientist, but that will raise the risk of criticism.

Take care,
Steve
Austin, Texas USA

[norman jones]

bradys reference to his article has case studies which show the effectiveness of stromectol(ivermectin).
walter suggests it is not a long term solution but it appears to be very effective with the two week dose.

nothing wrong with trying that and then using the products from this site to keep it under control and eventually eliminate the problem.

[JS]

Maybe using the stromectol for a couple weels could be a real advance in the progress of the DS treatments... Bringing about the final eliminations sooner?..

It's something I would certainly try myself. My question is, is this available by Rx only? How can I get it?

[Brady Barrows]

Maybe using the stromectol for a couple weels could be a real advance in the progress of the DS treatments... Bringing about the final eliminations sooner?..

It's something I would certainly try myself. My question is, is this available by Rx only? How can I get it?

JS,

It is prescription only. I wrote an editorial on Ivermectin at this url >

http://www.rosaceans.com/html/ivermectin.html